If joke stealing is the highest crime for comedians, let’s make sure we’re convicting someone with evidence that’s a slam dunk. After the Joe Rogan / Carlos Mencia confrontation made a huge tear through the web, I posted on how I don’t think anyone can claim to own the “Who’s Gonna Built the Wall” joke. I’ve found at least two other examples of that joke being told by the comics D. L. Hughley and George Lopez. And I’ve edited them into my own video. Watch below:
And each of the comics had their own spin or take afterwards, making the joke a setup for something else:
George Lopez follows up that to get white people to do it will require waiting for permits.
D.L. Hughley mentions that black people won’t do the job and then impersonates a white person working out in the sun.
Carlos Mencia has the white foreman tell the immigrants to check the Mexico side of the fence when they’re finished so they can close the doors.
Ari Shaffir does something with it too, I’m sure. I just don’t have the original video.
They all make it their own. Some with better results than others. (If you ask me which was most successful. I’d have to say George Lopez but that’s only because I was in the audience for Comic Relief. He was the first guy I remembered from that night who killed.)
It’s interesting to note that this joke is also at the beginning of most of their acts - so they can go from something general and then lead the audience to their own very specific take on an issue that was in the news. This means you’re going to find a lot more similarities between comics if you watch their first three minutes than if you watch their last five.
I don’t like much of Carlos Mencia’s comedy either. But I’m not going to make judgments on whether a comic steals be clouded by my dislike for them. Joke stealing is a complex issue. I hope Joe Rogan keeps on making joke stealers afraid, very afraid, by bringing more and more potentially stolen material to light. But everything should be questioned, because this is the worst label you can put on a comic.
For some good background on joke stealing, check out this article from Radar by Larry Getlen. It talks about Robin Williams, Denis Leary, Milton Berle along with Cook and Mencia.
As a reliable putdown artist for many of Comedy Central Roast, Lisa Lampanelli rose to prominence as a breed of comic that seemed more destined for parody by Triumph the Insult Comic Dog on late night TV than the club circuit. Her latest, Dirty Girl, was just released last month on CD and DVD. I talked with the Queen of Mean about having warmth on stage, interracial dating and where to sit if you do or do not want to be a target for her insult comedy.
Your act seems like it would be hard to develop because until people know who you are, they would be less likely to get you. There are a lot of comics who say until people are coming just to see you, that sometimes it’s hard to win them over.
Well, what it is, is that I always knew I could do whatever I want because I’m freaking lovable, OK? Because I’m the most likeable, nicest person you’ll ever meet. So basically I can make fun of you and you’re not going to get mad.
But there will always be a percentage of people going to a comedy club as a fan of the club first. As in, “Oh, we love Caroline’s, let’s go,” or “We love Punchline, let’s go.” And those are the ones who will be shocked and go, “Oh my God, I can’t believe she said that.” But in a theater now – now that I’m drawing into theaters – you deliberately make the choice to come see that comic. So now I can do what I want.
But to be honest, I always did whatever I want. I never edited myself for these pricks. There was a whole string of Improvs who wouldn’t use me because they thought I was racist. And I was like, “You’re a cunt. You’re gonna be sorry.”
Not all the Improvs. There are ones that are great. Just this string that this one guy opens, who are calling now, “Can we get her?” Too late, dude. You missed the boat.
The fallout from the Carlos Mencia and Joe Rogan confrontation hasn’t settled yet. According to his blog, Joe Rogan has been asked by management of the Comedy Store to “take a break” from the club, which he is taking to mean an outright ban from performing there again. He takes great pains to emphasize that he doesn’t believe this is club owner Mitzi Shore’s doing, but rather that of her children, including Pauly Shore, who are increasingly taking over the business as her health fades. Carlos Mencia, on the other hand, will be playing the club on Saturday the 17th.
I don’t agree that there’s enough evidence yet to hang Carlos Mencia as a joke thief, but I don’t think Joe was wrong in taking on the issue if Carlos called him up on stage and engaged him in debate - which is essentially what you are doing when you say someone doesn’t have the guts to say shit to your face. Further more, Joe was handed a microphone by somebody in the video - were they Comedy Store staff? If so he was actively encouraged to continue the feud on stage. To kick him out of the club would be a bit disingenuous. Now I wasn’t there. I don’t know all the facts. But it’s a bit disappointing that both comics aren’t paying the price for the event if it’s that much of a black mark to the Comedy Store.
Though disappointed, Joe actually sees his break with the club fitting with the Comedy Store’s bizarre history:
I think the way it ended, with a video seen by millions of people is just about a perfect way to go. It’s almost fitting that I get banned from there, because it makes no sense.
Nothing about the comedy store has ever made sense.
That was always a part of the beauty of the place.
Still, Joe encourages his fans to complain to the Comedy Store at the following phone number and email address:
323 656 6225
But he’s already moved on, booking gigs at the Hollywood Improv for this Thursday at 10, Friday at 8:30 and Saturday at 10. I’d say the best revenge for Joe would be for this gig to be packed. Go if you love him in general or if you just love him for the attempted video takedown of Mencia.
Oh, if you want to see the video that sparked the feud, it’s down off YouTube thanks to copyright violation clams by Carlos Mencia. In interest in letting people decide for themselves from seeing the video, after the jump I’ve included the video from two different sources which have not taken it down. Yet.
Update: Bobby Lee’s now saying that he never said Carlos stole from him. Here’s the YouTube video. In the original video when Joe asks him what Carlos stole from him, he doesn’t say “Nothing” - he talks about a bit about getting on his dad’s shoulders and then stops halfway because the cameras are there. There may well be a story here, but he’s backing away from it… which puts me far more firmly in Joe’s camp. If material is yours, speak up. Otherwise don’t be surprised when the inevitable happens.
To me, this is a far more credible critique of Carlos Mencia. And it’s damn funny too. From the Post Show on Super Deluxe, a place you should visit every day.
Joe Rogan‘s been pissed that joke thieves seem to get off without any backlash. And now, he’s doing something about it. This on-stage debate with Carlos Mencia is pretty brutal. Let’s watch it.
A couple of things here. I don’t think Ari Shaffir owns the joke about illegals building the wall to keep them out. It’s a joke that can be done by anyone. And worse yet it has been done been done everyone. Check out this post on Media Matters. a liberal watchdog group, where it takes Ann Coulter for task for actually suggesting illegals build the wall as a legitimate proposal. Where do they say she took it from? SNL. (BTW, this is probably the best evidence yet that Ann Coulter is a character and she doesn’t believe half of what she says.)
I’ve seen the Daily Show do a version. George Lopez has also been credited with it. If you search Google for variations on the punchline, you’ll find several others who aren’t even comics coming up with it. Even if Carlos heard it from Ari opening for him, he could have heard it four or five other places as well. Or write it himself, because it’s that simple of a joke. The video even contradicts itself. When Carlos says a Jew couldn’t think up this joke because it wouldn’t be his forté, the video points out that Ari’s act is mostly about racial material. If Carlos is stealing from Ari, wouldn’t he be up on Ari’s act? Just a thought.
That said, I do believe Carlos could well be a thief. The video or audio I want to hear is the 10 plus minutes of similar material between George Lopez and Carlos Mencia that’s referenced in the video. Now that would be damming evidence. But again, dismissing Carlos over that one joke, not enough. But hopefully, seeing Joe confront someone like Carlos will make other comics more likely to speak up - Bobby Lee should put together his own comparison video too. Let’s get all this out in the open.
Horatio Sanz had to bow out of his featured performance at the 2007 Dirty South Improv festival for health reasons less than a day before the showtime. It’s unclear what exactly was affecting Horatio’s health, but a post on the comedy message board A Special Thing mentions that he did go to the hospital. Whatever the case, I definitely hope he is well or on the mend. If I find out anything else, I’ll post it here.
Louis CK apparently stepped in on short notice and flew down Friday to Carrboro, North Carolina to fill Sanz’s slot. According to that same post, it was an incredible performance - much of it new and already apparently quite strong despite him recently completing an HBO special at the end of last year, effectively retiring that material. I’ve heard Louis CK describe how he’s been following Chris Rock‘s model of treating the shows between specials like training for prize fights. If Louis C.K. can maintain the high bar he set in his special Shameless, he and Chris are on to something. If there’s a model for how to pursue being a comic right now it’s him.
In a recent post, I talked a bit about how some people have used a piece of audio to conclude that Dane Cook stole three bits from Louis C.K. I’ve never been entirely convinced by the audio evidence - one, “itchy asshole,” is just the same topic. I think it’s a common enough experience.
Here’s some proof on another of the bits, this one about naming kids. It’s oriented exactly the same way as the original, Louis first, Dane second and then a joke that predates both recordings by at least 20 years. It’s called “My Real Name” by Steve Martin and it’s from his album A Wild and Crazy Guy.
The general comedic concept is there in Steve Martin’s joke: a child having a ridiculous name made up of a repeated sound, which is then emphasized when the parents call their kid home. The only major difference here is that Steve Martin is the kid.
Does this mean Louis C.K. and Dane Cook stole from Steve Martin? Absolutely not. This is a joke that doesn’t belong to anyone. It’s going to be discovered and rediscovered again and again by comics - each of whom will put their own spin on it. For example:
Louis C.K. goes on to talk about naming a child “Ladies and Gentlemen” so he can say, “Ladies and Gentlemen, please!”
Dane Cook talks about naming his kids after Transformers, particularly Optimus Prime.
And Steve Martin abandons the concept all together and goes on to something else.
Joke stealing happens. It does. But I think it’s very hard to particularly prove with material as universal as this. If Dane Cook came out now and started to talk about how his daughter is an asshole, of course he’d be a thief, because (besides not having a daughter) that material is so unique and personal to Louis C.K.’s experience that there’s no way that could belong to anyone else. It’s inescapable. It’s beyond putting your own spin on an experience, it’s putting a trademark on it. And that’s the type of stuff comics should be crucified for stealing, not for something that’s lying around on the street, waiting for the next guy to pick up.
Susie Essman: "I don't get heckled that much. Most hecklers are men... When I'm on stage, I'm in control and I don't think men want to be humiliated by a woman. Where with other guys, it's a mano y mano thing, with me I don't think they want to go there." (AintItCool)
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As a reliable putdown artist for many of Comedy Central Roast, 
and 
. I talked with the Queen of Mean about having warmth on stage, interracial dating and where to sit if you do or do not want to be a target for her insult comedy.
The fallout from the Carlos Mencia and Joe Rogan confrontation hasn’t settled yet. According to 
.
.
